WORST flight experience ever

Question:

Well, why were the seats assigned in this way to begin with?

You who seems to be well traveled should ask this?? I am sure you know that even planning ahead doesn’t guarantee advance seat assignments–I have failed to get them even 3 weeks in advance on a popular flight. Also, there are many airlines which will NOT assign any seats in advance.

Response:

Amazing…..bulkhead seats??? Not where we were seated. How was a family of 5 to take the 3 seats in a row??? The other person wasn’t asked to move, just me! Then my husband & I when I refused to be seperated. I stood in line for 20 mins for my seat #, same goes for everyone else. So what’s the gripe? You weren’t there to accept or reject the poor attitde of the steward with many other seats available with empties next to them. — THE AWESOME 1 Managing Editor of GameMaster Online http://www.gamemasteronline.com "Living The Good Life"

Response:

This raises an interesting point. Do you think the cabin crew should advise other passengers when accomodations need to be made because other passengers are travelling in an emergency? I know I would certainly be more willing to change my seat, even to an undesireable middle seat, if the reason for the request was to acommodate someone’s emergency travel to see a sick or dying loved one, obtain medical treatment, etc. I’d also readily relinquish a treasured bulkhead seat if the FA explained that someone with a slipped disk (or bad leg, etc.) needed it to avoid physical pain and discomfort. On the other hand, I’d be a lot more reluctant to accomodate someone who simply was too stupid and selfish to plan ahead and, instead, expected the world to accomodate their whims. It seems to me that a judicious word from the FA, assuming the reseating situation warranted it, could avoid a lot of unpleasantness, as could a complimentary drink or two to the dispossessed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There a woman with 3 toddlers & a newborn get on the flight & I am TOLD to move to another seat so they may sit together. I refused as I sit with my husband as we paid. Excuse me for asking, but what makes you think she didn’t pay? The only way NOT to pay for a child under 2 years old is to hold that child on your lap. Since she had 3 toddlers and a newborn, I think it is pretty clear that the newborn was on her lap (and thus didn’t pay), but the other 3 children had to have their own PAID seats. I think you were pretty selfish about the whole thing. Every parent I know does tons of planning before embarking on a trip with even _one_ kid, let alone 4! And this poor woman was _alone_ with 4 kids. Did it ever occur to you that she didn’t have pre-assigned seats because she was traveling for an emergency or a death in the family? I am sure you know that if you want a pre-assigned seat, you have to get it early. Otherwise, you have to take what is left. It seems likely that this is what happened to her. I think your behavior was, well, childish.

Response:

[snip] Did it ever occur to you that she didn’t have pre-assigned seats because she was traveling for an emergency or a death in the family? I am sure you know that if you want a pre-assigned seat, you have to get it early.

Yo. The airline was Southwest. There are no pre-asigned seats at all. Otherwise, you have to take what is left. It seems likely that this is what happened to her.

Something is strange about this story. Women with infants get to board first DESPITE not standing in line early for a boarding card. The lady just flat showed up late (with 4 kids in tow who wouldn’t). I think your behavior was, well, childish.

Well. This is a tad strong. But the real problem is created by Southworst. This open seating crap is what leads to this problem. You show up early to get your low number so you can get a seat you want/need. You stand in line after line to give yourself some sort of assurance that you will get theses seats. You get on board, stow your junk, buckle up, watch everyone else come aboard, then some sad sack comes along and you are tossed to the 4 winds for whatever dregs are left now that everyone has already sat down. Kinda blows the point of the whole system. If they would just drop the whole charade and assign SOME seats to those folks who need/pay for this service it would solve the whole problem. But they are so focused on maintaining this "greyhound" facade that they refuse to give it up. It’s just stubborn, which is another childish behavior.

Response:

But here’s my question about the late-boarding mom with toddlers bumping people in the bulkhead: why should she get to bump people with prime seats? If they’ve got to be together, ask someone who’s in ordinary seats to move. Just because she has an armload of kids, she doesn’t get the best seats. If she’d planned ahead, fine. As it is, isn’t there some restriction on multiple kidlets flying with one adult? Pamela Brown Yaeger

There should be, and for a whole lotta more reasons than safety.

Response:

Freddie: If I am selfish, then how if we boarded in Cleveland after waiting for a # to get on the plane to chose unreserved seats that are FIRST COME FIRST GET! Then in Nashvilles a party of 5 want a row with 3 seats & only 2 of us moving??? Pretty close quarters???? Some jerk transforms my post saying we were in a bulkhead area, WHICH WE WERE NOT, but in the crammed, hard as rocks seats & a leak to the poor guy seated across the aisle from us & he got no new seat and his leak started over Akron OH! Let me guess, you work for SWA — THE AWESOME 1 Managing Editor of GameMaster Online http://www.gamemasteronline.com "Living The Good Life"

Response:

If she’d planned ahead, fine. Not everyone can plan ahead. Sometimes there are emergencies. Whether you approve of emergencies or not, they are "fine" too. By the way, planning ahead doesn’t always get you seats. I have often booked 3 weeks in advance and have been told that I cannot get a seat pre-assigned.

How does the saying go, "Bad planning on your part does not constitute a crisis on mine." I recall a flight, I think on HP, where a woman with a kid appropriated my assigned window seat because her odd kiddie-carrier required it. I made damn sure the FA found me a new window seat. Yes, it’s good to help out someone in distress. But far too many people these days EXPECT their poor planning and inconsideration to be accomodated by others. Ed R.

Response:

Sounds like a bus! In that case, where the family boarded in a different city–a later stop, as it were, one would have hoped that someone (even you) would have volunteered to help them out. How long was the remainder of your trip? Let me guess, you work for SWA

Nope! I have never even flown them. I have heard that they operate like a bus.

Response:

But I don’t think that this would come under the ADA regulations (and as the regulars here know, I am no fan of ADA).

NOTHING about passengers in airplanes comes under ADA regulations. NOTHING. There is a specific clause in the act exempting public carriers. The Air Carrier Act of 198? covers flight of handicapped people and it doesn’t require the airlines to roll over and die when someone who obviously can’t fly safely, as in the case of someone who won’t fit into a seat, wants to get on a plane. ADA talks about "reasonable accomodation"; ACA talks about safety. — Mary Shafer NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA SR-71 Flying Qualities Lead Engineer Of course I don’t speak for NASA URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html

Response:

There a woman with 3 toddlers & a newborn get on the flight & I am TOLD to move to another seat so they may sit together. I refused as I sit with my husband as we paid. Excuse me for asking, but what makes you think she didn’t pay? The only way NOT to pay for a child under 2 years old is to hold that child on your lap. Since she had 3 toddlers and a newborn, I think it is pretty clear that the newborn was on her lap (and thus didn’t pay), but the other 3 children had to have their own PAID seats. I think you were pretty selfish about the whole thing.

Well, why were the seats assigned in this way to begin with? Personally, I would have done just about anything to get AWAY from four young pax, but if the seat’s assigned to the woman and her husband, she has every right to be there.

Response:

[snip of woman with kids moving poster from seat she'd occupied] Well, why were the seats assigned in this way to begin with? Personally, I would have done just about anything to get AWAY from four young pax, but if the seat’s assigned to the woman and her husband, she has every right to be there.

They weren’t assigned–it’s Southwest. Brenda and her husband just got to the seats before the woman with the kids. Somebody else also said something about them being bulkhead seats and therefore more favored–as far as I can see, that’s confusing it with the original poster on this thread, because I can’t find anything in Brenda’s post that called them bulkhead. It might work better as an analogy if you consider so, however, since bulkheads seem to be assigned in a rather Southwestish manner sometimes. Deborah Stevenson

Response:

Pardon me, but the whiner said NOTHING about "prime seats." The person went on quite a bit about having gotten a special deal–something like $25 per leg. There was no mention of obtaining any "prime seats" for that price. Just because she has an armload of kids, she doesn’t get the best seats.

There was no mention of "the best seats" — only the need for her to be with her kids. If she’d planned ahead, fine.

Not everyone can plan ahead. Sometimes there are emergencies. Whether you approve of emergencies or not, they are "fine" too. By the way, planning ahead doesn’t always get you seats. I have often booked 3 weeks in advance and have been told that I cannot get a seat pre-assigned. As it is, isn’t there some restriction on multiple kidlets flying with one adult?

ROTFLMAO!!

Response:

snip While it is unfortunate that this family may be split up, a pax that followed all the rules and arrived early so as to be assured of early boarding should not be forced to vacate their seat.

snip -Heck, what are we coming to? So, given the fact that this lady missed the preboarding, we’re supposed to say, "Forget it, you missed your chance. We’re not going to try and help you at all?" While we do not know why this woman boarded late as she did, if the FA did in fact demand that a pax relocate, that is unreasonable.

Again, unreasonable that we try and help somebody out who really needs it? Not to mention the fact that this is probably in everybody’s best interest to have the woman sit with the children. If Southwest had said, "Sorry, we’re going to make you get off the plane and rent a car to drive across country to your destination," that would have been unreasonable. Asking, "Can the two of you move to other seats" is just trying to do the decent thing. I mean, for crying out loud, we’re talking about small children here. For all we know, this family could be an extreme hardship case that SW was providing free transportation on a standby basis. If that’s the case, you take what you can get.

And if they weren’t "extreme hardship? And even if they were, that somehow lessens our responsibility to our fellow man? Yeah, let’s appease ourselves by saying "it’s okay, they’re poor people." You know, I usually get to these discussion groups because I’m interested in finding out a specific piece of information. I’m reminded again of why once I find that information I stop reading the group. IMO, the attitudes expressed by so many of today’s society are appalling. I don’t say "members of society" because membership typically denotes responsibility towards the shared group and it is evident that many feel no responsibility at all. Would it really be so bad for people to stop defending their "rights" for just a bit and see what is needed by others around them? I myself despise poor service, but getting ugly about it doesn’t help anybody involved, it just ruins the day of everybody around you. My first reply may have been "uglier" than I might prefer, but I am appalled at the complete callousness demonstrated in the post I replied to. Sheyrl, can you imagine people giving up their seats on a crowded bus to let a woman or elderly person take the seat, even though the bus ride might be for 5-6 hours? I saw it happen regularly in South America. In the U.S. it appears most think even changing seats is unreasonable. Sad.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There a woman with 3 toddlers & a newborn get on the flight & I am TOLD to move to another seat so they may sit together. I refused as I sit with my husband as we paid. Then they told us we both would be moving. I again I stated BS! We stood in line for a seat #, did she??? Did they???? Absolutely agree, why should anybody at all ever be asked to help out another human being in this life time, especially when you paid for your tickets. Completely agree that I would rather have that mother sit several rows away from a couple of her kids so they can scream even louder and tear up the plane even more, throwing stuff at the other passengers. Who the hell does she think she is to try and get across the country to visit the grandparents or maybe even her husband working in an entry level position for some sweatshop consulting firm and disrupt the rest of us who paid money for our seats just like she did (except for the children under two). If she wanted seats together, she should have gotten to the airport earlier and let those kids get even fussier than the already were. Children and mothers just tick me off. Glad you never were one or ever had a mother.

As a very frequent Southwest Airlines pax, I disagree with some aspects of Ms. Moran’s post (ex., the 13 hour part); however, your response is way out of line. First of all, SW announces pre-boarding for pax such as this woman with small children. It is quite likely that this family was flying standby and thereby wasn’t able to take advantage of pre-boarding. While it is unfortunate that this family may be split up, a pax that followed all the rules and arrived early so as to be assured of early boarding should not be forced to vacate their seat. If Ms. Moran was accurate in that this one adult was travelling with 4 children, to my knowledge, SW Airlines is the only carrier flying a 737 that would even offer the possibility of all of them being seated together, as they have several sets of seats facing each other. If it weren’t for that seat configuration, the family would have to be split up if for no other reason than because of the number of oxygen masks available per row. While we do not know why this woman boarded late as she did, if the FA did in fact demand that a pax relocate, that is unreasonable. For all we know, this family could be an extreme hardship case that SW was providing free transportation on a standby basis. If that’s the case, you take what you can get.

Response:

There a woman with 3 toddlers & a newborn get on the flight & I am TOLD to move to another seat so they may sit together. I refused as I sit with my husband as we paid.

Excuse me for asking, but what makes you think she didn’t pay? The only way NOT to pay for a child under 2 years old is to hold that child on your lap. Since she had 3 toddlers and a newborn, I think it is pretty clear that the newborn was on her lap (and thus didn’t pay), but the other 3 children had to have their own PAID seats. I think you were pretty selfish about the whole thing. Every parent I know does tons of planning before embarking on a trip with even _one_ kid, let alone 4! And this poor woman was _alone_ with 4 kids. Did it ever occur to you that she didn’t have pre-assigned seats because she was traveling for an emergency or a death in the family? I am sure you know that if you want a pre-assigned seat, you have to get it early. Otherwise, you have to take what is left. It seems likely that this is what happened to her. I think your behavior was, well, childish.

Response:

While we do not know why this woman boarded late as she did, if the FA did in fact demand that a pax relocate, that is unreasonable. For all

The last time I witnessed an incident similar to this was on a TWA flight from St. Louis to Jacksonville. Apparently a mother had reserved two seats for her and her infant…window and middle…but the aisle seat in that row had been assigned to another female passenger. As the mother was boarding, one of the FAs tactfully told the aisle seat passenger she could stay in her assigned seat or she could move to another aisle seat, if she wished. (The flight wasn’t completely full.) The woman moved to the aisle seat in the row in front of me; then the passenger with that seat assignment arrived. At that point the FA indicated the displaced woman should just go on up into First Class. (And yes, by that time the mother had had baby supplies across all three seats in her row.) –Dennis

Response:

You guess it. FLight Full But he said at the beginning ‘almost completely full’….then later on he said "flight full’. Did he mean that to say that when he looked around that there were NO empty seats available? A lot of times I have asked for a seat closer up front and have been told that the seats were already taken. Imagine my ire when I get on the flight and see empty seats galore in where I originally wanted to sit! Grrrr…. Maryanne.

Response:

You can probably thank the "no shows" for holding those seats so you cant have them. It’s frustrating to have no good seats available when you know you’ll probably, not all the time, but more often than not, have several good seats reserved with noshows. Someone who wants a better seat is out of luck and whoever walks up at the right time -when the seats are put back- gets one. If it looks like I’ll have lots of good seats to put back I have people check back with me 20 mins before dept when seats are cancelled. This isnt always the case though. Another good thing (non rev trick since we’re usually last to board anyway) is to hang out near the door and just let the crew know you are waiting for last call so you can see about a different seat. Of course you have to be sure your bag will fit under your seat or you’ll probably have to check it, but I’ve gotten some of those -unassignable- seats at the last minute just before the door is closed. In the case of the original poster though, it sounds like there were 0 seats available on the plane.

Response:

There a woman with 3 toddlers & a newborn get on the flight & I am TOLD to move to another seat so they may sit together. I refused as I sit with my husband as we paid. Then they told us we both would be moving. I again I stated BS! We stood in line for a seat #, did she??? Did they????

Absolutely agree, why should anybody at all ever be asked to help out another human being in this life time, especially when you paid for your tickets. Completely agree that I would rather have that mother sit several rows away from a couple of her kids so they can scream even louder and tear up the plane even more, throwing stuff at the other passengers. Who the hell does she think she is to try and get across the country to visit the grandparents or maybe even her husband working in an entry level position for some sweatshop consulting firm and disrupt the rest of us who paid money for our seats just like she did (except for the children under two). If she wanted seats together, she should have gotten to the airport earlier and let those kids get even fussier than the already were. Children and mothers just tick me off. Glad you never were one or ever had a mother.

Response:

worst flight experience I am not quite sure how to answer this…I wonder if whoever was in charge of flight service on your flight ever checked to see how uncomfortable your spouse would be sitting next to someone of such girth. But I don’t think that this would come under the ADA regulations (and as the regulars here know, I am no fan of ADA). DL put a notice on our FF statements several months ago that said bulkhead seats wre subject to re-assignment up to one hour before flight time, if someone with a handicap requested one of those seats, but in an email that DL sent me in reponse to questions that I had, DL retracted what they said and told me that pax in bulkhead seating were _not_ required to give up those seats if so asked. You did not say if the FA offered to re-assign you and your spouse elsewhere if space was available. Granted, going from a bulkhead seat to one several rows back (but with more room for the both of you), may not have been the greatest in terms of location in the plane but it might have made you more comfortable. You did not indicate to say if your flight was full or not. If it wasn’t, I think the FA should have given you that option if it was available, and I am suprised that they did not. Maryanne.

Response:

Actually, he did explicitly say the flight was full. I’m intrigued by what the Delta FA told him about "the rules," though; it seems to run counter to the available info. If these are indeed the rules, *everybody* is going to be miserable in this situation, including the overweight passenger. Deborah Stevenson

Response:

worst flight experience <snip You did not say if the FA offered to re-assign you and your spouse elsewhere if space was available. Granted, going from a bulkhead seat to one several rows back (but with more room for the both of you), may not have been the greatest in terms of location in the plane but it might have made you more comfortable. You did not indicate to say if your flight was full or not. If it wasn’t, I think the FA should have given you that option if it was available, and I am suprised that they did not. Maryanne.

He said <<You guessed it. Flight full. So there was nowhere else to move them to. Ask to sit on their jumpseat for the flight??

Response:

$25 Southwest Airline Anniversary special. Yep, I fell for it logging onto their web site vs the overly busy phone #. We wanted to get to Las Vegas for cheap to visit friends. $25 per airport making $100 RT PP. Leave CLE at 9AM ET, arrive Nashville. There a woman with 3 toddlers & a newborn get on the flight & I am TOLD to move to another seat so they may sit together. I refused as I sit with my husband as we paid. Then they told us we both would be moving. I again I stated BS! We stood in line for a seat #, did she??? Did they???? Not guaranteed seats together since it is a first come first serve flight. End of conversation. Then they serve peanuts & pop, and they skip us. So we thought what jerks & get to LAS. What is a 4.5 hours trip on CO took 6 hours with SWA. The trip home was WORSE! Get our #’s after arriving 2 hour in advance & are seated together on a flight we thought was headed to Chicago Midway, but it stopped in Omaha Nebraska! Sat for 1 hour boarding folks from a stranded flight & then onto Chicago. There you must get off the plane, get in line for a new # & board a different plane at a different gate. Then they want you ready to board, no time for food at nowhere-to-be-seen restaurants at that area, So on the plane we get, more peanuts & pop & finally get to CLE 13 hours later from LAS!!!! Never again – even for FREE!!!! Give me reserved seats & decent planes with an educated staff. Now i understand the nickname for SWA "Greyhound of the Sky". — THE AWESOME 1 Managing Editor of GameMaster Online http://www.gamemasteronline.com "Living The Good Life"

Response:

My wife and I recently flew from East Coast to the West Coast on that carrier that just recently settled it’s strike with their employees. We like ‘exit row seating’ or ‘bulkhead seating’, because I am tall and I feel there is more room in this arrangement. We know from previous experience we must get to the airport very early and ask for these seats. Well—-we got to the airport very early (90 minutes) and sure—they have plenty of these seats available. We were assigned to Row 11, Seats D & E. This was a wide body plane with 2 seats, an aisle, 5 seats, an aisle, then 2 more seats. They were bulkhead seats and OK with us. Now, the plane is just about completely filled with passengers—as all the commotion for storage in the overhead compartments had died down—folks were belted in and reading or snoozing and we notice that the seat "C" next to my wife is still empty. The flight attendents were moving up and down the aisles checking seat belts and asking for seats to be moved into the upright 11, Seat C. Now this was a sight to behold. This fellow was so immense in the "wide" catagory that he couldn’t sit in the seat or even on the seat cushion. He had to sit on the arm rests (left and right of his assigned seat) and was given two (2) additional seat belt straps by the flight attendent closely following him. He was about 5′ 8" tall and easily 500-550 lbs. I doubt I have ever seen an individual so large. His right shoulder and arm were in the middle of my wife’s seat. He couldn’t hold his arm out of her space because of his girth. He even wrapped the additional seat belt around his arm to hold it against his body. We were so stunned by all of this that we were in the midst of take-off before my wife and I gathered the courage to whisper to one another about what to do. After we were in flight and the ‘fasten seat belt’ sign was off, I approached one of the fight attendents about the availability of empty seats. You guessed it. Flight full!!!!! I raised the issue about the ‘big fellow’ next to my wife and was told "nothing can be done about it". In the mean time my svelte wife (5′4", 120lbs) moves to my seat upon my encouragement. For the whole flight from the East Coast to the West Coast, either my wife or I were standing or leaning up against some part of the plane. We paid for two (2) seats, but got only one—or 1 1/2. Both of us even felt guilty about protesting this situation, because of this fellows obvious endocrine disorder. Later in the flight I talked to the ‘Head Flight Attendent’ about the situation and was told about the American’s with Disabilities Act and how the airlines had been sued and the fact that they cannot ask passengers about buying two (2) tickets to accomodate their disability. So, why not a free additional seat for these people? Why should the airline offer a free additional seat along with the paid ticket when they have unsuspecting full pay bozos like my wife and I flying all day long? Dazed, disillusioned and dead tired we got home. Is something wrong here? Sucked up and shut up in Seattle Gerry P.S. As we exited the plane at Seatac in Seattle we were given an envelope by the Head Flight Attendent. Hmm—-I wondered. I opened it later to find a Coupon for a Free Drink on my next flight. Egad!

Response:

Filed under: Endocrine disorder

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