Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS)

Any suggestions for a vegetarian?

Question:

Knocking somone for having political or moral convictions, no matter how whacky they may seem to you, is a pretty rude way to start out a converstaion.  I didn’t read the original thread but it sounded like a legit question so let’s keep it civilized until you really have a reason to light the fire.   The only time it’s appropriate, IMNSHO, is when they try and convert you after you’ve mentioned you’re not interested.  THEN you let ‘em have it with both barrels!! Peace? jc "you can lead a horse to water but a pencil has to be lead"

Response:

Eat a T-bone. Seriously , try the whey protein powders .. most are lactate free. Matt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help, please! How do I succeed as a vegatarian?

Response:

Mary, I agree about the hormones & antibiotics in the meat…  Definitely bad news… As far as the humaneness etc. etc. of the way the animals are raised, come out to Iowa, the cattle are not kept in small pens for the most part  but even so… The human body is DESIGNED to eat meat… without it, it is nearly impossible to have optimal health!… Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know if he’s serious or a troll, but I will reply in earnest. Health is a concern!  Read your Atkins; he addresses this issue in the beginning chapters of his book.  Meat is given untested (no long-term studies) growth hormones, antibiotics are mixed into their feed (contributing to the "superbug" problem), they are smashed into tiny feces-laden pens, and are slaughtered in unhumane and unhealthy ways. Chickens are also given antibiotics, and egg hens are fed arsenic as a stimulant for laying.  A huge amount of chickens slaughtered for food have pus-filled lungs, which the government allows to be "suctioned" out with a device that supposedly removes "most" of the pus.  Chickens are debeaked (no anethesia) because they are kept in cages that are so crowded and unsanitary that, if they were not, they would peck themselves to death. One widely-quoted USDA official (you’ll find the quote, and other documentation for the above, at http://www.veganoutreach.org/wv/ ) has said that if the health standards set for meat and poultry products were enforced (demanding more manpower and money than the government has to spend on food health inspections right now), the vast majority of American slaughterhouses would be closed (his point was that this would be disasterous for the ecomony, although of course health activists have jumped on its rather troubling food-safety implication). I believe that the health reasons are quite compelling for giving up most meat, and certainly any non-organic meat.  I ALWAYS ask if restaurants serve organic, hormone-free beef (and most nice restaurants do — Niman Ranch is a great supplier of such beef: http://www.nimanranch.com ). And Dr. Atkins agrees. Mary S. —– Seriously, why are you a vegetarian? Is it for health reasons (I certainly hope not), political reasons (if so, go play on the freeway),

Response:

I haven’t been uncivilized here in any way… My original post was only cautioning that it was very difficult to get enough proteins as a vegetarian, with NO personal or political comments…   Hey, I didn’t even attack raindude… Just AGREED with him by pointing out the fact, that I *DO* listen to Rush Limbaugh, and *DO* have personalized "DITTOS" plates on my car If I’ve offeneded anyone, I apologize! Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Knocking somone for having political or moral convictions, no matter how whacky they may seem to you, is a pretty rude way to start out a converstaion.  I didn’t read the original thread but it sounded like a legit question so let’s keep it civilized until you really have a reason to light the fire.   The only time it’s appropriate, IMNSHO, is when they try and convert you after you’ve mentioned you’re not interested.  THEN you let ‘em have it with both barrels!! Peace? jc "you can lead a horse to water but a pencil has to be lead"

Response:

I haven’t been uncivilized here in any way…

Brian, my post was not directed at you – notice I knocked all the headers off.  However,  Allan and JenknRankn kind of got off on Ariel, the original poster, for being a vegatarian, making suggestions such as "eat a T-bone" and "jerk" and such. I don’t care why anyone wants to be a veggie -personally, I didn’t fight my way to the top of the food chain to eat rabbit food – but it’s their decision and as long as they ask legitimate questions, why should they be insulted?  While it’s certainly not impolite to question the basis for their convictions (I NEVER do that – and you believe me right?  Let me get my Loon Mallet……), the insults are, IMNSHO, not called for. Of course, one should always keep an ammo box full nearby, just in case…… Cheers, jc

Response:

Direct thy loon mallet to thyself from time to time. Just for fun you see. Matt (wants to buy a loon mallet)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t been uncivilized here in any way… Brian, my post was not directed at you – notice I knocked all the headers off.  However,  Allan and JenknRankn kind of got off on Ariel, the original poster, for being a vegatarian, making suggestions such as "eat a T-bone" and "jerk" and such. I don’t care why anyone wants to be a veggie -personally, I didn’t fight my way to the top of the food chain to eat rabbit food – but it’s their decision and as long as they ask legitimate questions, why should they be insulted?  While it’s certainly not impolite to question the basis for their convictions (I NEVER do that – and you believe me right?  Let me get my Loon Mallet……), the insults are, IMNSHO, not called for. Of course, one should always keep an ammo box full nearby, just in case…… Cheers, jc

Response:

Meat is given untested (no long-term studies) growth hormones, antibiotics…….    <snip!

I think that as long as it’s cooked properly, the effects of any hormones/antibiotic’s etc, etc, will be less than nominal.  Heat has a tendency to destroy these things.   If you have personal agenda’s with the way animals about to be slaughtered are treated, you should contact these individual slaughter houses with your feelings.   However, I would suggest that you visit the one you think you don’t like and see how the operation is run before you send off any nasty notes.  I’ve only been in 3 in my life and while it’s a "messy" operation by it’s very nature, all three I was in were as clean and orderly as could be under the circumstances.  I was there to deliver something, visit friends or to buy meat and was offered the "nickel tour" in each case.   While no one is "nice" to an animal about to be killed, I’ve never seen any that were abused with "abused" meaning someone going out of their way to cause them pain or suffering.   Does it happen?  I’m sure it does somewhere.  And it should be prevented by any legal means, just as the cleanliness should be monitored by someone independent of the operator of the facility. cheers. jc

Response:

Direct thy loon mallet to thyself from time to time. Just for fun you see.

I’ve had a LM up side my head so many times, I have calluses! They say a person learns from their mistakes.  That makes me the smartest sonofgun in the WORLD! !! jc

Response:

Go ahead and plonk the thread titles "an ode to meat" I deserve it. PLONK me damnya! ROFL Matt {Taking mass quantities of ephedrine and hydroxycut}

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Direct thy loon mallet to thyself from time to time. Just for fun you see. I’ve had a LM up side my head so many times, I have calluses! They say a person learns from their mistakes.  That makes me the smartest sonofgun in the WORLD! !! jc

Response:

However,  Allan and JenknRankn kind of got off on Ariel, the original poster, for being a vegatarian, making suggestions such as "eat a T-bone" and "jerk" and such.

<snip No, I didn’t. I called Allan a jerk for his gratuitious comment that politically-motivated vegetarians should go "play in the freeway." I suppose it was unnecessary, but I’m tired of the late spate of smug political jibes that have nothing to do with supporting our WOE. Such as calling people you don’t agree with "eco-freaks" or sneering about "junk science." What is it with these people who can’t just disagree, but have to put down people they disagree with? And in my defense, that’s not what I’m doing; I’m reacting to it. Sorry to take up NG space with it. I’ll stop now. Anne 253/212/153 7/99

Response:

Count me as someone who is highly suspicious of "vegetarians" who want to low-carb.  There are very few *genuine* vegetarians who are overweight.  And some of the utter crap the poster of "Any suggestions for a vegetarian?" wrote was straight out of the PETA handbook. — Sherilyn Atkins since 9-1-99 295/250/150(?)

Response:

Why not. I know overweight vegetarians. There is one who works with me. He is very strict vegan – eats no animal products at all, no meat, no eggs, no dairy, etc. Eats *very* low fat. He has white hair and a beard like Santa, and is just as round as Santa as well, and he’s not the only one I know. I don’t think any eating plan has a hammer-lock on thinness or fatness. — Debbie Cusick "When I get a little money I buy books: and if any is left over I buy food and clothes. "  - Erasmus Check out the asdlc FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Count me as someone who is highly suspicious of "vegetarians" who want to low-carb.  There are very few *genuine* vegetarians who are overweight.

Response:

<< My original post was only cautioning that it was very difficult to get enough proteins as a vegetarian A statement from someone who is truly misinformed….I get plent of protein as an ovo-lacto vegetarian thank you very much

Response:

<< Count me as someone who is highly suspicious of "vegetarians" who want to low-carb.  There are very few *genuine* vegetarians who are What *exactly* are you suspicious of, sir? Granted, my brother, who just lost some weight, is vegetarian/vegan, had a little extra meat on the bone due to eating too much processed crap,,,BUT, I, on the other hand, have PCO and the related insulin resistance…..I didn’t sit around stuffing myself on junk all day….I ate beans, rice, veggies, fruits, tofu, potatoes and more beans and obviously MY body can’t process all this starch….So, why the hell would you be suspicious of me….. PS I know plenty of fat vegetarians who don’t have PCO….thye probably have no balance in their diets whatsoever….or don’t move their asses at all….

Response:

Ariel, The Schwarzbein Principle is one of the few low carb books that have a special plan for vegetarians.  She (Diane Schwarzbein MD) even has a vegetarain low carb cook book – The Schwarzbein Principle Vegetarian Cookbook. Hope that helps, Kara : Help, please! How do I succeed as a vegatarian? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Seriously, why are you a vegetarian? Is it for health reasons (I certainly hope not), political reasons (if so, go play on the freeway),

Jerk.

Response:

Help, please! How do I succeed as a vegatarian?

It isn’t easy but supposedly it can be done.  Here’s a link to a website set up just for vegetarian lowcarb eating. http://www.immuneweb.org/lowcarb/ Good luck. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

So….  I’m a jerk because I think that not eating meat for political reasons is ludicrous?   Well then…. I guess you’re right. I am a jerk. The Jerk 285/241/235 — I made $125 last month just by surfing the web. Join me at  http://www.alladvantage.com/ Use my referral ID: EBX 663

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seriously, why are you a vegetarian? Is it for health reasons (I certainly hope not), political reasons (if so, go play on the freeway), Jerk.

Response:

Allan, Should we start a club?  :) Brian says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So….  I’m a jerk because I think that not eating meat for political reasons is ludicrous?   Well then…. I guess you’re right. I am a jerk. The Jerk 285/241/235 — I made $125 last month just by surfing the web. Join me at  http://www.alladvantage.com/ Use my referral ID: EBX 663 Seriously, why are you a vegetarian? Is it for health reasons (I certainly hope not), political reasons (if so, go play on the freeway), Jerk.

Response:

Gee, how did you know I have personalized license plates that read "DITTOS"  ???   Brian says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes!!!! Fat Jerks!!!!  Oh yeah, that would be republican rush Limbaugh ditto heads…better just have a circle jerk! Allan, Should we start a club?  :) Brian says… So….  I’m a jerk because I think that not eating meat for political reasons is ludicrous?   Well then…. I guess you’re right. I am a jerk. The Jerk 285/241/235 — I made $125 last month just by surfing the web. Join me at  http://www.alladvantage.com/ Use my referral ID: EBX 663 Seriously, why are you a vegetarian? Is it for health reasons (I certainly hope not), political reasons (if so, go play on the freeway), Jerk.

Response:

I don’t know if he’s serious or a troll, but I will reply in earnest. Health is a concern!  Read your Atkins; he addresses this issue in the beginning chapters of his book.  Meat is given untested (no long-term studies) growth hormones, antibiotics are mixed into their feed (contributing to the "superbug" problem), they are smashed into tiny feces-laden pens, and are slaughtered in unhumane and unhealthy ways. Chickens are also given antibiotics, and egg hens are fed arsenic as a stimulant for laying.  A huge amount of chickens slaughtered for food have pus-filled lungs, which the government allows to be "suctioned" out with a device that supposedly removes "most" of the pus.  Chickens are debeaked (no anethesia) because they are kept in cages that are so crowded and unsanitary that, if they were not, they would peck themselves to death. One widely-quoted USDA official (you’ll find the quote, and other documentation for the above, at http://www.veganoutreach.org/wv/ ) has said that if the health standards set for meat and poultry products were enforced (demanding more manpower and money than the government has to spend on food health inspections right now), the vast majority of American slaughterhouses would be closed (his point was that this would be disasterous for the ecomony, although of course health activists have jumped on its rather troubling food-safety implication). I believe that the health reasons are quite compelling for giving up most meat, and certainly any non-organic meat.  I ALWAYS ask if restaurants serve organic, hormone-free beef (and most nice restaurants do — Niman Ranch is a great supplier of such beef: http://www.nimanranch.com ). And Dr. Atkins agrees. Mary S. —– – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seriously, why are you a vegetarian? Is it for health reasons (I certainly hope not), political reasons (if so, go play on the freeway),

Response:

Yes!!!! Fat Jerks!!!!  Oh yeah, that would be republican rush Limbaugh ditto heads…better just have a circle jerk!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Allan, Should we start a club?  :) Brian says… So….  I’m a jerk because I think that not eating meat for political reasons is ludicrous?   Well then…. I guess you’re right. I am a jerk. The Jerk 285/241/235 — I made $125 last month just by surfing the web. Join me at  http://www.alladvantage.com/ Use my referral ID: EBX 663 Seriously, why are you a vegetarian? Is it for health reasons (I certainly hope not), political reasons (if so, go play on the freeway), Jerk.

Response:

Help, please! How do I succeed as a vegatarian?

Response:

The best suggestion I can give is quit being a vegetarian and eat some critter! Seriously, why are you a vegetarian? Is it for health reasons (I certainly hope not), political reasons (if so, go play on the freeway), or you just don’t like the taste of meat? If the third is the reason, I know the CAD book has a section about being a LC vegetarian. I didn’t bother to read that part…. Allan 285/241/235 — I made $125 last month just by surfing the web. Join me at  http://www.alladvantage.com/ Use my referral ID: EBX 663

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help, please! How do I succeed as a vegatarian?

Response:

Ariel, Not being judgemental here, just the scientific facts: 1.  The body "uses" or "turns over" approximately 1 pound of protein a day. 2.  Approximately 1/2 of that protein it can "recycle" from what it broke down, meaning you need to consume approximately 1/2 lb of *bio available* protein a day. 3.  At *BEST* a vegetable based protein has 1/2 of the amino acids (protein content) as an animal based protein 4.  At *BEST* that vegetable based protein is 1/2 as bio-available as animal based protein (much of the protein is tied to cellulose… We cannot digest cellulose, so about 1/2 of the protein is NOT available to us, because we do not have the physiology of a cow, we aren’t meant to get our primary nutrients from vegetable-based sources.) 5.  That means, that for optimum health, you would need to consume *2 pounds) of vegetable based  protein per day *MINIMUM*. 6.  If you eat eggs and/or cheese (real, AGED cheese, not cheese food, Kraft slices etc.) you can do OK… Again, these are the scientific FACTS… you can get these from medical & biochemistry text books… It’s just the way our body is meant to work. Brian 270/195/181 Peskin 6-28-99 says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help, please! How do I succeed as a vegatarian?

Response:

Filed under: PCO

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